.css-1odorsr{display:-webkit-inline-box;display:-webkit-inline-flex;display:-ms-inline-flexbox;display:inline-flex;-webkit-align-items:center;-webkit-box-align:center;-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;font-weight:700;}.css-1ln5qhx{-webkit-text-decoration:none;text-decoration:none;display:-webkit-inline-box;display:-webkit-inline-flex;display:-ms-inline-flexbox;display:inline-flex;-webkit-align-items:center;-webkit-box-align:center;-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;font-weight:700;}.css-1dmvvgc{margin:0;color:#0060b9;-webkit-text-decoration:none;text-decoration:none;display:-webkit-inline-box;display:-webkit-inline-flex;display:-ms-inline-flexbox;display:inline-flex;-webkit-align-items:center;-webkit-box-align:center;-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;font-weight:700;}Get your salary negotiated .css-1npej63{-webkit-user-select:none;-moz-user-select:none;-ms-user-select:none;user-select:none;width:1em;height:1em;display:inline-block;fill:currentColor;-webkit-flex-shrink:0;-ms-flex-negative:0;flex-shrink:0;-webkit-transition:fill 200ms cubic-bezier(0.4, 0, 0.2, 1) 0ms;transition:fill 200ms cubic-bezier(0.4, 0, 0.2, 1) 0ms;font-size:1.25rem;margin-left:-4px;}or your resume reviewed by the real experts - recruiters who do it daily. Real HR managers from Microsoft would have just three [sic]s in a post of that length. I got involved in features up front, by spending time getting to know the PM team. And I appreciate you screening out the non-productive whining posts. My biggest struggle has been getting good feedback on where I need to grow. Joined MCS at level 60 and was immediately told that L61 would be years away. Rather nice site you've got here. >Apple's about to ship Snow Leopard with no new features. My promotion to 63 came not when I helped my group out of one of their many nightmares but when I helped an uncle. What got you here ain't gonna get you there. It is my observation that the most common place we see disillusioned learners in the product groups at MS is at level 62. For context, I have always been "exceeded" or "high achieved", If you want to dig a bit more around job titles which gives you an idea of someones level or the dispersion of a team, remember that the title you see in Outlook is not the real title, its just the address book title. He identified the common denominators in becoming an expert in practically any field. There certainly doesn't seem to be any shortage of people wanting in. A past co-worker of mine had the same thing done to him and now there are two devs doing what he did by himself.I guess Microsoft has its reasons. If you have your mnanager in your pocket, you cna achieve greate heights in life. I made sure I was the guy you wanted to call when the server crashed in the lab with a crazy callstack and no repro.Second, OWN the features. But it is also clear that there are places at Microsoft where these skills are not required until higher.I have a 62 test somehow make it to dev with mediocre dev skills, social skills limited to indifference or hostility, who managed to delegate most of the hard work to a smart kid hired to work with him and he made it to 63. Why cannot we have our address title reflect our level as everybody else in the company?Not giving quite as snide a response as the previous posterAsk your management. If you dont know what exactly an L63 is, how are you able to make promotion discussions in the review meetings?Managers become so defensive when asked what we should be doing to advance. Expertise in the following areas: Product Marketing Consistently created groundbreaking, customer-focused value . It's an excellent product. Tech corporation VPs are execs in the have-own-budget sense, and are usually the first position on the ladder that has this kind of control. But it should definitely keep me up in the top of the class, and getting a nice review score + kudos + a job well done with results is a reward in itself (that I crave for more than the actual promotion).I have given this suggestion to Lisa, but I have not seen any action so far. 1. You must emphasize the goal of understanding how to improve, not just tagging a higher paycheck. If you get caught in a review and someone hits a fastball by you and you stumble, the people above you suddenly have fears that you might stumble when they and you are in front of the person who controls their careers. What if you and your manager are at the same level L62. If your boss is saying "Yes, ready for promo now" and your skip is saying "No, not now" well, why? Some considerations, based on my own career:- The best way to get to level 63 is moving around, and getting promotions as you move. Some related job titles areMarketing Director salaries with median pay of $163,348,Senior Consultant salaries with median pay of $123,519,Senior Product Manager salaries with median pay of $193,845,Managing Director salaries with median pay of $333,006. Director can be applied to L65 or L66. Turn (it) Around, Bright Eyes: every now and then I get a little bit thrilled when someone joins the team straight out of school (or with a little industry experience) and after a few months it's obvious that Microsoft is the best company for them. When I was an IC, it was tough technical problems or simply critical problems that no one else wanted. Pull the ripcord. below 63 one has low influence and above 64, it is more strategizing and less execution.Overall, my experience has been that promotion is the effect of results and good work. Or at least, more transparent feedback was communicated so you had a real idea of where your career was heading. I will mis-direct and confuse you with hearsay. Amy Hood. Some were also not very sexy/fun problem but they were all critical to ship. Its nice to see constructive advice and stories from everyone.I'm in the 61 bucket and currently struggling with my team for many months. I think you should play some games while searching for you L63 promotions. What do you do when your manager is an absolute b***h, a disgrace in meetings with other teams and an embarrassment on her good days? Add your salary anonymously in less than 60 seconds and continue exploring all the data. According to Glassdoor, senior software engineers at Google can earn $172,818 as their average base pay, along with average cash bonuses of $30,921, stock bonuses of $104,769, and some other cash incentives for a total of $201,000. No, L7 is 66-67. Also, never ascribe to malfeasance what may simply be due to incompetence. The estimated total pay for a Senior Director at Microsoft is $500,742 per year. The average entry-level engineer or program manager will have a total compensation of $125,665. Of course I ensure my manager and skip-level are aware of my contribution as a mentor, but I figure that as long as I'm in front of the wave, the best way for me to advance is to move the wave forward. Go and restart in another org and dig through their historical biz and people stability during your informationals. That's the easy way out. VPs may well number in the hundreds at a huge place . 3. After all, they are thinking through if you will be a good peer and will be easy to work with (and make their lives better in some way). But they don't have the same visibility that your manager has in your specific org. But the clarity I have through the rear view mirror is staggering -- I was defining myself by what a bunch of poorly skilled managers thought, in a company that hadn't moved it's stock price in seven years. * Stability at Microsoft is a two-edged sword. And how do you represent yourself as a leader and influencer when you are in a room with 6 other people vying for the exact same thing? Understand that promos aren't an exact formula. Attack problems within your own areas of influence proactively and generate that same good vibe among peers. While I was pleased with the attention, I was also rather upset. Facebook, Go to company page All of my peers are SDE II's, so L61-L62.The advice is simple:First, NAIL the fundamentals. Is there much motivation to really fix Vista's perception problems?Machiavelli might note that intentionally leaving Vista's reputation in the toilet will make Windows 7 look all that much better when it comes out - allowing some of our VP's pride, ego's and bank balances to swell to truly epic proportions. If he thought you were trouble already, though, telling him you are thinking about leaving is like asking for a ticket out of there.7. You know you want to get to that other bar, but that chasm in between is fraught with risk. Thats a very helpful answer. That sounded like a complete crock to me. Then follow Mini's advice and you should be all set. then the follow-up is: after what accomplishments and around when? Good managers: In general, good managers realize that they need to sell their team's accomplishments. That is why to get to L65 a VP level person must know your work and be able to recall your name without help. We need to grow out of this bad legacy syndrome that we still have. If you can't ever figure it out, and if you can't become a "favorite underling", then it's time to find a different group with people you can better relate-to. If so I wish them good luck - as oppose to the US, these regions have laborlaws which makes it very hard for a company with Microsofts margin to lay people off. I'm interested in reading your perspective and what advice you'd give to someone new to the company looking at a career path similar to your own. If your boss isn't banging his fist on the table for you, it won't happen. So I cultivate relationships with my manager's peers; their support helps tremendously. Its difficult to transfer to a new position because at a high level, what group is going to take you on to a new position you have no experience in. Ive seen many people who didnt quite fit at MS go off and be very successful at other companies, starting their own biz, changing careers, by finding a better fit for themselves. And on one total-eclipse-rare occasion, I've been able to be answer the follow-up question: will they reach L65 and say with confidence: Absolutely. If they see flaws you have flaws. keep in mind mentors are not one size fit's all. You need to consider how you can compete with the pizza eating 25 year olds that don't have a life and work 80 hours a week. Then do it.Yeah yeah, that's an oversimplification. When I mastered the above -- and when I had partner teams widely viewed as difficult or bad partners coming to my GM and singing my praises as the go-to guy, *that* is when I became a Principal. I am soliciting ideas to reduce cost in this blog. Things get thrown your way and you knock each and everyone of the challenges out of the park. For example, when I joined MS in 1990 there were 6 devs working on the first version of Word for Windows. because I have never seen the above formula fail with me in many years or people I know (a sample set of hundreds of person-years), I would agree, right now, level is deflated, 64, and 65 are real barriers, and salary level expand as well. Judson Althoff. Kathleen Hogan. Your analysis is very true, specially the part about owning the room and be regarded as the domain expert. Help make it more accurate by, Get started with your Free Employer Profile, average salary for a Senior Director is $170,707 per year in United States, The Ultimate Job Interview Preparation Guide. I influenced the features, I lended my expertise on them, and I learned about the customer - all this way before the spec'ing phase. And to your boss. Microsoft senior leadership team under Satya Nadella Tech Here are the most important execs at Microsoft under Satya Nadella Jordan Novet @jordannovet Key Points Microsoft's executive team. If you're not an Absolutely! Lots of terrible mid level managers at MS. To the person from MCS who said it was easy to get to 64 in MCS - MCSinTheFieldI agree with you there, you can get to a L64 in MCS but try to ever transfer to another org as a L64. Those teams I used to despise as a L60, and only tolerate as a 63? Amazon, Go to company page I'm not even thinking about level 63 at this point. weeks to find another position within the company, otherwise they are laid off.Anyone know others? Candidates should have a Ph.D. in Physics and a strong commitment to undergraduate education. Who da'Punk Thats why L64->L65 transition is so hard. Wish I this post and comments laminated about 10 years ago after I wasn't going to get rich off stock.My comment to add is to those who are put into situations of continual reorgs and want to achieve the 'Senior'. Salesmanship is extremely important. Bottom line: Dont be shy of asking for promotions during internal transfers. . Steven A. Ballmer Chief Executive Officer, Microsoft Corporation. It varies greatly from manager to skip.The hardest point for me to bear is that I am young, capable of doing so much more, and absolutely dying to do more. Here's to you! He himself is principal for quite sometime. Worked my ass off and finally get recognized as Snr contributor. . If you think of it as "How can I do better than my manager?" work on your visibility. At this point many people will ask how can I influence others if Im not their manager? This employer has claimed their Employer Profile and is engaged in the Glassdoor community. Should I trust my manager or is this just one more of his demonstrations of poor management skills? Great post! When your manager finally ask you to do X, you'll be nodding your head and saying, "yeah, totally, and here's my progress on X." I am going through some finanical hardships and is getting the level changed is the only way for a salary increase? The general consensus is why get rid of someone who is happy doing their job and can do it better than anyone else.
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