If your history is even remotely correct, that would have ushered in a very different church, if Valentinus's own student Marcus and the Marcosians were involved in psychedelic rituals, then that was an early road not taken, let's say. And I guess my biggest question, not necessarily for you, but the psychedelic community, for what it's worth, or those who are interested in this stuff is how do we make this experience sacred? But I'm pressing you because that's my job. And so I cite a Pew poll, for example, that says something like 69% of American Catholics do not believe in transubstantiation, which is the defining dogma of the church, the idea that the bread and wine literally becomes the flesh and blood. I'm happy to argue about that. And I'll just list them out quickly. And much of the evidence that you've collected is kind of the northern half of the Mediterranean world. And I asked her openly if we could test some of the many, many containers that they have, some on display, and many more in repository there. The Immortality Key has its shortcomings. That there is no hard archaeobotanical, archaeochemical data for spiked beer, spiked wine. Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin: The Eleusinian Mysteries I can't imagine that there were no Christians that availed themselves of this biotechnology, and I can't imagine-- it's entirely plausible to me that they would mix this biotechnology with the Eucharist. You want to field questions in both those categories? If the Dionysian one is psychedelic, does it really make its way into some kind of psychedelic Christianity? The Immortality Key - Book Review and Discussion - Were early - Reddit And so in some of these psychedelic trials, under the right conditions, I do see genuine religious experiences. 7:30 The three pillars to the work: the Eucharist as a continuation of the pharmako and Dionysian mysteries; the Pagan continuity theory; and the idea that through the mysteries "We can die before we die so that when we die we do not die" 13:00 What does "blood of Christ" actually mean; the implied and literal cannibalism It was one of the early write-ups of the psilocybin studies coming out of Johns Hopkins. That's all just fancy wordplay. The phrasing used in the book and by others is "the pagan continuity hypothesis". So there's a whole slew of sites I want to test there. And he was actually going out and testing some of these ancient chalices. I mean, so Walter Burkert was part of the reason that kept me going on. And I look forward to talking about this event with you after the fact eventually over a beer. And the truth is that this is a project that goes well beyond ancient history, because Brian is convinced that what he has uncovered has profound implications for the future of religion, and specifically, the future of his own religion, Roman Catholicism. Including, all the way back to Gobekli Tepe, which is why I mentioned that when we first started chatting. . And by the way, I'm not here trying to protect Christianity from the evidence of psychedelic use. And so if there is a place for psychedelics, I would think it would be in one of those sacred containers within monastic life, or pilgrims who visit one of these monastic centers, for example. I mean, lots of great questions worthy of further investigation. So I point to that evidence as illustrative of the possibility that the Christians could, in fact, have gotten their hands on an actual wine. "The Tim Ferriss Show" 646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin And what we find at this farmhouse is a sanctuary that Enriqueta Pons herself, the archaeologist who's been on site since 1990, she calls it some kind of sanctuary dedicated to the goddesses of the mysteries. And I want to ask you about specifically the Eleusinian mysteries, centered around the goddesses Demeter and Persephone. And let's start with our earliest evidence from the Stone Age and the Bronze Age. Where are the drugs? OK, now, Brian, you've probably dealt with questions like this. And I don't know what that looks like. I know that that's a loaded phrase. So frankly, what happens during the Neolithic, we don't know, at least from a scientific vantage. So first of all, please tell us how it is you came to pursue this research to write this book, and highlight briefly what you think are its principal conclusions and their significance for our present and future. So I spent 12 years looking for that data, eventually found it, of all places, in Catalonia in Spain in this 635-page monograph that was published in 2002 and for one reason or another-- probably because it was written in Catalan-- was not widely reported to the academic community and went largely ignored. I opened the speculation, Dr. Stang, that the Holy Grail itself could have been some kind of spiked concoction. But I don't hold-- I don't hang my hat on that claim. The continuity hypothesis of dreams suggests that the content of dreams are largely continuous with waking concepts and concerns of the dreamer. Some number of people have asked about Egypt. So to find dog sacrifice inside this Greek sanctuary alludes to this proto-witch, Hecate, the mother of Circe, who is mentioned in the same hymn to Demeter from the 8th, 7th century BC, as kind of the third of the goddesses to whom these mysteries were dedicated. Which is really weird, because that's how the same Dina Bazer, the same atheist in the psilocybin trials, described her insight. First, the continuity of the offices must be seen in light of the change of institutional charges; they had lost their religious connotations and had become secular. It's funny to see that some of the first basilicas outside Rome are popping up here, and in and around Pompeii. Pagan Continuity and Christian Attitudes: When did Paganism End? #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Lessons from Scholar Karen Armstrong, and Much More Brought to you by GiveWell.org charity research and effective giving and 5-Bullet Friday, my very own email newsletter. One, on mainland Greece from the Mycenaean period, 16th century BC, and the other about 800 years later in modern day Turkey, another ritual potion that seemed to have suggested some kind of concoction of beer, wine, and mead that was used to usher the king into the afterlife. Mark and Brian cover the Eleusinian Mysteries, the pagan continuity hypothesis, early Christianity, lessons from famed religious scholar Karen Armstrong, overlooked aspects of influential philosopher William James's career, ancient wine and ancient beer, experiencing the divine within us, the importance of " tikkun olam "repairing and improving It pushes back the archaeology on some of this material a full 12,000 years. So your presentation of early Christianity inclines heavily toward the Greek world. It's only in John that Jesus is described as being born in the lap of the Father, the [SPEAKING GREEK] in 1:18, very similar to the way that Dionysus sprung miraculously from the thigh of Zeus, and on and on and on-- which I'm not going to bore you and the audience. So you were unable to test the vessels on site in Eleusis, which is what led you to, if I have this argument right, to Greek colonies around the Mediterranean. So I'll speak in language that you and our good colleague Greg [? Not in every single case, obviously. And how do we-- when the pharmaceutical industry and when these retreat centers begin to open and begin to proliferate, how do we make this sacred? The Gnostics did have continuity with paganism. Now, it's just an early indication and there's more testing to be done. The only reason I went to college was to study classics. Interesting. And I wonder and I question how we can keep that and retain that for today. But let me say at the outset that it is remarkably learned, full of great historical and philological detail. I think the wine certainly does. BRIAN MURARESKU: But you're spot on. Read more about The Immortality Key by Brian Muraresku Making Sense by Sam Harris BRIAN MURARESKU: Right. And I write, at the very end of the book, I hope that they'd be proud of this investigation. The Immortality Key: Book Overview (Brian Muraresku) Yeah. These-- that-- Christians are spread out throughout the eastern Mediterranean, and there are many, many pockets of people practicing what we might call, let's just call it Christian mysticism of some kind. The Tim Ferriss Show Podcast | Free Listening on Podbean App So even from the very beginning, it wasn't just barley and water. There have been really dramatic studies from Hopkins and NYU about the ability of psilocybin at the end of life to curb things like depression, anxiety, and end of life distress. That's only after Constantine. We see lots of descriptions of this in the mystical literature with which you're very familiar. An Exploration of Religion: An Interview with Brian Muraresku And we had a great chat, a very spirited chat about the mysteries and the psychedelic hypothesis. CHARLES STANG: We've really read Jesus through the lens of his Greek inheritors. Psychedelics Today: Mark Plotkin - Bio-Cultural Conservation of the Amazon. Or maybe in palliative care. Thank you all for joining us, and I hope to see many of you later this month for our next event. When Irenaeus is talking about [SPEAKING GREEK], love potions, again, we have no idea what the hell he's talking about. But I don't understand how that provides any significant link to paleo-Christian practice. I really tried. That seems very believable, but there's nothing to suggest that the pharmacy or drug farm was serving Christians, or even that the potions produced were for ritual use. That's the promise in John's gospel, in John 6:54-55, that I quote in the book. Video: Psychedelics: The Ancient Religion with No Name? We don't have to look very hard to find that. Correcting Key Points in Muraresku, The Immortality Key He's been featured in Forbes, the Daily Beast, Big Think, and Vice. Before I set forth the outline of this thesis, three topics must be discussed in order to establish a basic understanding of the religious terminology, Constantine's reign, and the contemporary sources. So it's hard for me to write this and talk about this without acknowledging the Jesuits who put me here. BRIAN MURARESKU: I would say I've definitely experienced the power of the Christ and the Holy Spirit. But what I see are potential and possibilities and things worthy of discussions like this. It's not to say that there isn't evidence from Alexandria or Antioch. And what it has to do with Eleusis or the Greek presence in general, I mean, again, just to say it briefly, is that this was a farmhouse of sorts that was inland, this sanctuary site. Continuity theory - Wikipedia Despite its popular appeal as a New York Times Bestseller, TIK fails to make a compelling case for its grand theory of the "pagan continuity hypothesis with a psychedelic twist" due to recurring overreach and historical distortion, failure to consider relevant research on shamanism and Christianity, and presentation of speculation as fact." But what I hear from people, including atheists, like Dina Bazer, who participated in these Hopkins NYU trials is that she felt like on her one and only dose of psilocybin that she was bathed in God's love. As much as we know about the mysteries of Eleusis. Now you're a good sport, Brian. They minimized or completely removed the Jewish debates found in the New Testament, and they took on a style that was more palatable to the wider pagan world. What the Greeks were actually saying there is that it was barley infected with ergot, which is this natural fungus that infects cereal crops. Richard Evans Schultes and the Search for Ayahuasca 17 days ago Plants of the Gods: S3E10. There's John Marco Allegro claiming that there was no Jesus, and this was just one big amanita muscaria cult. And that's where oversight comes in handy. The Tim Ferriss Show. Let me start with the view-- the version of it that I think is less persuasive. I'm happy to be proven wrong. That they were what you call extreme beverages. And so I can see psychedelics being some kind of extra sacramental ministry that potentially could ease people at the end of life. They did not. #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Lessons from Scholar Karen Armstrong, and Much More from The Tim Ferriss Show on Podchaser, aired Wednesday, 28th December 2022. CHARLES STANG: So it may be worth mentioning, for those who are attending who haven't read the book, that you asked, who I can't remember her name, the woman who is in charge of the Eleusis site, whether some of the ritual vessels could be tested, only to discover-- tested for the remains of whatever they held, only to learn that those vessels had been cleaned and that no more vessels were going to be unearthed. Origin of the Romanians - Wikipedia So psychedelics or not, I think it's the cultivation of that experience, which is the actual key. BRIAN MURARESKU:: It's a simple formula, Charlie. I was satisfied with I give Brian Muraresku an "A" for enthusiasm, but I gave his book 2 stars. Administration and supervision endeavors and with strong knowledge in: Online teaching and learning methods, Methods for Teaching Mathematics and Technology Integration for K-12 and College . But it's not an ingested psychedelic. First, I will provide definitions for the terms "pagan", "Christian", So we move now into ancient history, but solidly into the historical record, however uneven that historical record is. So what evidence can you provide for that claim? This limestone altar tested positive for cannabis and frankincense that was being burned, they think, in a very ritualistic way. What Brian labels the religion with no name. They were relevant to me in going down this rabbit hole. And please just call me Charlie. let's take up your invitation and move from Dionysus to early Christianity. He comes to this research with a full suite of scholarly skills, including a deep knowledge of Greek and Latin as well as facility in a number of European languages, which became crucial for uncovering some rather obscure research in Catalan, and also for sweet-talking the gatekeepers of archives and archaeological sites. So, like, they're wonderstruck, or awestruck by their libations and their incense. What's different about the Dionysian mysteries, and what evidence, direct or indirect, do we have about the wine of Dionysus being psychedelic? I would have been happy to find a spiked wine anywhere. I'm paraphrasing this one. This discussion on Febrary 1, 2021, between CSWR Director Charles Stang and Brian Muraresku about his new book, The Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name,a groundbreaking dive into the role of psychedelics in the ancient Mediterranean world. BRIAN MURARESKU: Right. But so as not to babble on, I'll just say that it's possible that the world's first temple, which is what Gobekli Tepe is referred to as sometimes, it's possible the world's first temple was also the world's first bar. What's significant about these features for our piecing together the ancient religion with no name? And all along, I invite you all to pose questions to Brian in the Q&A function. The divine personage in whom this cult centered was the Magna Mater Deum who was conceived as the source of all life as well as the personification of all the powers of nature.\[Footnote:] Willoughby, Pagan Regeneration, p. 114.\ 7 She was the "Great Mother" not only "of all the gods," but of all men" as well. I would love to see these licensed, regulated, retreat centers be done in a way that is medically sound and scientifically rigorous. She found the remains of dog sacrifice, which is super interesting. Because at my heart, I still consider myself a good Catholic boy. And what about the alleged democratization with which you credit the mysteries of Dionysus, or the role of women in that movement? CHARLES STANG: We're often in this situation where we're trying to extrapolate from evidence from Egypt, to see is Egypt the norm or is it the exception? The long and short of it is, in 1978 there was no hard scientific data to prove this one way or the other. Israel's Exodus In Transdisciplinary Perspective: Text - Vdoc.pub And according to Wasson, Hofmann, and Ruck, that barley was really a code word. But I do want to push back a little bit on the elevation of this particular real estate in southern Italy. Brian has been very busy taking his new book on the road, of course, all online, and we're very grateful to him for taking the time to join us this evening. Here's the big question. Because even though it's a very long time ago, Gobekli Tepe, interestingly, has some things in common with Eleusis, like the worship of the grain, the possibility of brewing, the notion of a pilgrimage, and interaction with the dead. Klaus Schmidt, who was with the German Archaeological Institute, called this a sanctuary and called these T-shaped pillars representations of gods. And so for me, this was a hunt through the catacombs and archives and libraries, doing my sweet-talking, and trying to figure out what was behind some of those locked doors. CHARLES STANG: All right. I mean, if Burkert was happy to speculate about psychedelics, I'm not sure why Ruck got the reception that he did in 1978 with their book The Road to Eleusis. And she talks about kind of being born again, another promise from John's gospel. It's interesting that Saint Ignatius of Antioch, in the beginning of the second century AD, refers to the wine of the Eucharist as the [SPEAKING GREEK], the drug of immortality. In the afterword, you champion the fact that we stand on the cusp of a new era of psychedelics precisely because they can be synthesized and administered safely in pill form, back to The Economist article "The God Pill". There were formula. I understand the appeal of that. In fact, he found beer, wine, and mead all mixed together in a couple of different places. The Psychedelic Gospels: The Secret History of Hallucinogens in Just imagine, I have to live with me. And when Houston says something like that, it grabs the attention of a young undergrad a bit to your south in Providence, Rhode Island, who was digging into Latin and Greek and wondering what the heck this was all about. There have been breakthroughs, too, which no doubt kept Brian going despite some skepticism from the academy, to say the least. Which is a very weird thing today. And so I do see an avenue, like I kind of obliquely mentioned, but I do think there's an avenue within organized religion and for people who dedicate their lives as religious professionals to ministry to perhaps take a look at this in places where it might work. He was wronged by individuals, allegedly. First I'll give the floor to Brian to walk us into this remarkable book of his and the years of hard work that went into it, what drove him to do this. BRIAN MURARESKU: I wish I could answer that question. And she happened to find it on psilocybin. Two Reviews of The Immortality Key - Graham Hancock Continuity Hypothesis - Keith E Rice's Integrated SocioPsychology Blog Now I want to get to the questions, but one last question before we move to the discussion portion. And that's what I get into in detail in the book. And that is that there was a pervasive religion, ancient religion, that involved psychedelic sacraments, and that that pervasive religious culture filtered into the Greek mysteries and eventually into early Christianity. When there's a clear tonal distinction, and an existing precedent for Christian modification to Pagan works, I don't see why you're resistant to the idea, and I'm curious . The Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name And I don't know if it's a genuine mystical experience or mystical mimetic or some kind of psychological breakthrough. 55 This is very likely as it seems that the process had already started in the 4th century. I'm trying to get him to speak in the series about that. Nazanin Boniadi [2] The continuity theory of normal aging states that older adults will usually maintain the same activities, behaviors, relationships as they did in their earlier years of life. And I just happened to fall into that at the age of 14 thanks to the Jesuits, and just never left it behind. But the point being, if the Dionysian wine was psychedelic-- which I know is a big if-- I think the more important thing to show here in this pagan continuity hypothesis is that it's at least plausible that the earliest Christians would have at the very least read the Gospel of John and interpreted that paleo-Christian Eucharistic wine, in some communities, as a kind of Dionysian wine. And I think there are lots of reasons to believe that. And her best guess is that it was like this open access sanctuary. The most influential religious historian of the twentieth century, Huston Smith, once referred to it as the "best-kept secret" in history. This is going to be a question that's back to the ancient world. I am excited . And in the ancient world, wine was routinely referred to as a [SPEAKING GREEK], which is the Greek word for drug. So I went fully down the rabbit hole. Mona Sobhani, PhD Retweeted. That's just everlasting. Lots of Greek artifacts, lots of Greek signifiers. The continuity between pagan and Christian cult nearby the archaeological area of Naquane in Capo di Ponte. And what, if any, was the relationship between those ancient Greeks and the real religion of the earliest Christians, who might call the paleo-Christians. BRIAN MURARESKU: Right. It still leaves an even bigger if, Dr. Stang, is which one is psychedelic? BRIAN MURARESKU: I'm asked this question, I would say, in pretty much every interview I've done since late September. So we not only didn't have the engineering know-how-- we used to think-- we didn't have even settled life to construct something like this. But I think the broader question of what's the reception to this among explicitly religious folk and religious leaders? So after the whole first half of the book-- well, wait a minute, Dr. Stang. Now that the pagan continuity hypothesis is defended, the next task is to show that the pagan and proto-Christian ritual sacraments were, in fact, psychedelicbrews. So this is interesting. The altar had been sitting in a museum in Israel since the 1960s and just hadn't been tested. The whole reason I went down this rabbit hole is because they were the ones who brought this to my attention through the generosity of a scholarship to this prep school in Philadelphia to study these kinds of mysteries. It tested positive for the microscopic remains of beer and also ergot, exactly the hypothesis that had been put forward in 1978 by the disgraced professor across town from you, Carl Ruck, who's now 85 years old, by the way. She had the strange sense that every moment was an eternity of its own. To some degree, I think you're looking back to southern Italy from the perspective of the supremacy of Rome, which is not the case in the first century. I mean, this is what I want to do with some of my remaining days on this planet, is take a look at all these different theories. And I just happened to fall into that at the age of 14 thanks to the Jesuits, and just never left it behind. Listen to #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Lessons from Scholar Karen Armstrong, and Much More, an episode of The Tim Ferriss Show, easily on Podbay - the best podcast player on the web. In the Classics world, there's a pagan continuity hypothesis with the very origin of Christianity, and many overt references to Greek plays in the Gospel of John. We still have almost 700 with us. Brought to you by Wealthfront high-yield savings account, Peloton Row premium rower for an efficient workout, and You Need A Budget cult-favorite money management app.. Rick Rubin is a nine-time GRAMMY-winning producer, one of Time magazine's 100 most influential people in the world, and the most successful producer in any genre, according to Rolling Stone. And when you speak in that way, what I hear you saying is there is something going on. #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian Examine the pros and cons of the continuity theory of aging, specifically in terms of how it neglects to consider social institutions or chronically ill adults. I just sense a great deal of structure and thoughtfulness going into this experience. This is all secret. Maybe there's a spark of the divine within. BRIAN MURARESKU: That's a good question. I'd never thought before about how Christianity developed as an organized religion in the centuries after Jesus' murder. So imagine how many artifacts are just sitting in museums right now, waiting to be tested. And so that's what motivated my search here. There was an absence of continuity in the direction of the colony as Newport made his frequent voyages to and . In the first half, we'll cover topics ranging from the Eleusinian Mysteries, early Christianity, and the pagan continuity hypothesis to the work of philosopher and psychologist William James. You might find it in a cemetery in Mexico. The same Rome that circumstantially shows up, and south of Rome, where Constantine would build his basilicas in Naples and Capua later on. The pagan continuity hypothesis theorizes that when Christianity arrived in Greece around AD 49, it didn't suddenly replace the existing religion. Here's what we don't. And so with a revised ancient history, in place Brian tacks back to the title of our series, Psychedelics and the Future of Religion. And part of me really wants to put all these pieces together before I dive in. Now, that date is obviously very suggestive because that's precisely the time the Christians were establishing a beachhead in Rome. I mean, I think the book makes it clear. #283: Managing Procrastination, Predicting the Future, and - Scribd But this clearly involved some kind of technical know-how and the ability to concoct these things that, in order to keep them safe and efficacious, would not have been very widespread, I don't think. I mean, this really goes to my deep skepticism. Jerry Brown wrote a good review that should be read to put the book in its proper place. But the next event in this series will happen sooner than that. So what do we know about those rituals? The book was published by Saint Martin's Press in September 2020 and has generated a whirlwind of attention. Leonardo Torres Pagan, PhD - Subject Matter Expert & Editor - LinkedIn 48:01 Brian's psychedelic experiences . And then that's the word that Euripides uses, by the way. Amazon.com: Customer reviews: The Immortality Key: The Secret History If you are drawn to psychedelics, in my mind, it means you're probably drawn to contemplative mysticism. You know, it's an atheist using theological language to describe what happened to her. #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Lessons from Scholar Karen Armstrong, and Much More by The Tim Ferriss Show BRIAN MURARESKU: Good one. CHARLES STANG: OK. Now let's move into the Greek mystery. And apparently, the book is on order, so I can't speak to this directly, but the ancient Greek text that preserves this liturgy also preserves the formula, the ingredients of the eye ointment. And that's the mysteries of Dionysus. You may have already noticed one such question-- not too hard. Despite its popular appeal as a New York Times Bestseller, TIK fails to make a compelling case for its grand theory of the "pagan continuity hypothesis with a psychedelic twist" due to recurring overreach and historical distortion, failure to consider relevant research on shamanism and Christianity, and presentation of speculation as fact
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